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Don’t blame us!
Reporter: Gillian Potts
Date online: 20 March 2013
TRANSPORT chiefs are blaming bad driving for a spate of cars getting stuck on tram tracks at Mumps.
At least four cars have driven on to the line since December resulting in major disruption across the network. In the latest incident on Friday, police helped to recover a car which drove on to the Rochdale line – stopping all services for almost an hour.
But Transport for Greater Manchester director Peter Cushing claims all possible safety measures were in place.
“The measures are based on industry-standard principles,” he said.
“Considering how busy the area is, this is clearly not an issue for the vast majority of motorists.
“Each of the incidents to date has been isolated. In one case a driver was arrested on suspicion of drink-driving, so it’s not a question of the same mistake being made each time. We have responded by making minor adjustments to make things even clearer.”
But several Chronicle readers disagreed: one claimed a confusing layout nearly saw him turning on to the tracks.
“It’s so easy to mistake the track as the road because of the red reflective lights. It needs big “no entry” signs up and some form of bollard - it’s poor design,” said motorist Simon Staples.
Others complained the signs aren’t visible at night and are obstructed at certain angles.
Another reader added: “It’s far too easy for the authorities to pass the blame on to motorists.”
Comments
Can anyone remember a time when a public sector boss ever admitted getting something wrong? The only time this happens is when a judge finds there is overwhelming evidence to show that they have, and then you can bet they come along and tell everyone they take their responsibilities 'very seriously' And so now most of us don't believe them when they place the blame else where.
Maybe when someone's killed and a judge finds blame, they'll change their minds
If you cannot tell the difference between the tram way and the road, despite the various signs, you should not be allowed behind the wheel of a car. Its not rocket science - pay attention.
"several Chronicle readers disagreed". Give me a break. If you can't differentiate between a tram line and a road, then quite simply you should not be driving. It's called observation of your surroundings and is a pre requisite before you even sit your test. Anybody that makes this "mistake" should be banned from driving and given a village idiot award.....
Signs are not great, but just look at the average standard of driving and is it a surprise?
for a moment i had to check the date! i thought with such a comment from tfgm it must be april fools day!
the routes the trams take have the same tarmac running up them approximately 2 - 3 meters upwards that the main road has.
other than the road hatching (which was added after 2 accidents had occured) there is not enough to differentiate between road and tram line.
it also needs no entry signs like other similar junction in manchester city centre.
so i challenge tfgm to this.
install bollards either side of the tram lines in both directions.
install no entry signs as well as the existing signs
install raised kerb edges either side of the tram lines in both directions.
and write in front of these tram entrances "trams only"
these are all present on manchester city centre tram crossings.
then lets see how many accidents occur then.
go on! i challenge tfgm!
It's called looking ahead! checking the ROAD your driving on! to say its the authorities passing the blame is but another example of the people of this country not taking responsibility for thier actions! Yes drivers make mistakes hell they kill thousands a year! If your not sure were your going then slow down! Cars etc still doing over 50mph at times even across that junction!Standards of driving are poor very poor!!
As for the red reflective lights! what do people think red usually means? RED MARKERS mark the nearside edge of the road (or hard shoulder if one is present)not something to cross me thinks.
The old mumps bridge was a great big ugly thing, but it did keep cars totally separate from rail. I am at a loss as to how anyone in their right mind would think it progress to do away with all the bridges. All the expense and years of traffic chaos to worsen the situation. Best to have kept rail and road separate.
On the subject of trams versus trains. The big difference as I see it is, I cant answer a call of nature on a tram and I can't take my dog on a tram.
Absolutely right! Too many people pay far too little attention to what they are doing or where they are going. Four careless drivers out of what must be hundreds of thousands who have successfully managed the junction. If all the rest of us know what we are doing, so should they.
Not their fault but there is a problem. It disrupts their services. It inconveniences their passengers. It is not unreasonable for them to work with the OMBC Highways Department to try to find means of preventing the incidents
Are people seriously saying that a couple of 3x5 signs will help people notice the 60 meters or so tram lines with over head power cables and tram warning signs. If people can't see all that they should not be driving to be frank. Coming soon signs at Dovestones telling people where the road ends and the water starts.
It may be bad driving that causes this but to me the response from Transport for Greater Manchester is arrogant and unhelpful. Whatever the reason there is clearly a risk of this occurring, increasing the risk of injury to persons or property and not least the inconvenience across a wide area to other people. Get off your pedestal TfGM and improve the signage.
The signeage is very unclear though I doubt anyone familiar with the area would make this mistake.One of our oldest running tramways in the UK at Blackpool has massive no entry signs at all locations where the rail network can be mistakenly accessed by vehicles.I dispute Transport for Greater Manchester's claim that all possible safety measures have been taken because Satellite tracking systems assume the roundabout still exists and directs you on to the Rochdale bound line!!!
If you can't read road signs or notice tram lines, you need an eye test and to take a look at the Highway Code. Drivers fault every time
Surely the clue is the tram tracks and overhead cables?
It doesn't matter whether it be bad driving, careless driving, stupid driving or otherwise. A problem obviously exists for some drivers and it must be the fault of the authorities for not making it ABSOLUTELY clear without any misapprehension about this junction. It really is as simple as that - the authority is at fault so stop passing the buck and get it solved.
If only there was a bridge the trams could have used instead...
Perhaps if people obeyed the 30 limit they would see the signs, unfortunately they all tear past at 50mph.
Only a complete and utter imbecile could drive up those tracks thinking they were a road. Get off your phones and pay attention!
Driving without due care and attention,they should be prosecuted.
Road Rocket 'It doesn't matter whether it be bad driving, careless driving, stupid driving or otherwise.' give me a break you sugest that as a driver you can drive as poorly as you like just say not enough signs the blue 'tram only' sign is at the same height as all other road signs.
Sat Nav systems guide you and again as a driver if you blindly follow a voice then more fool you! Maybe we should cancel the license for life system we have and retest people every 10 years.
"It doesn't matter whether it be bad driving, careless driving, stupid driving or otherwise. A problem obviously exists for some drivers"
Yes and you've highlighted their problem. They drive badly,carelessly and stupidly and somehow that's the fault of the authorities according to you.
Road Rocket, the problem exists for imbeciles only. Having read this last night, I drove past the tram lines today. I can't believe anybody would be stupid enough to mistake a tram line for a road. Anybody who drives up the tram line should be categorised as a dangerous driver, have their licence taken from them and have to sit a common sense test before being allowed to join the rest of the human race...
Oh dear some of you are missing my point. I agree wholeheartedly with you that it shouldn't happen and that it is careless driving, that they are idiots and need prosecuting etc. But the fact remains that at least four have already been confused therefore there must be a problem. Now if the authority is content to have more incidents happen in the future then don't do anything. If they want it solved then something needs doing - perhaps a large NO ENTRY sign on the right hand (drivers') side?
theres no point road rocket! some people on here must think hey are the most perfect drivers in the world and that this crossing layout has nothing wrong with its design.
tfgm has made similar comments on problem junctions in the city centre in the past. then modified them and found the accidents stop altogether.
Road Rocket & fedupoldhamer - for the thousands of times (if not borderline millions by now) cars have passed that junction, if only 4 events have happened, that is by no means a bad design. I don't think anyone is saying they are flawless drivers but the figures speak for themselves here and it's not the road layout that is the problem. I would be interested in seeing if the people that did end up on the tracks had used that road before while it's in it's current state.
Having read all the comments on here, I cannot believe that people actually take the stance that the morons who have drove up these tracks are innocent of bad signage. I went through Mumps for the first time at the weekend since I moved to Preston 8 years ago and had no problems in knowing what was the road and what was the tram tracks. Sorry, but the people who drive up the tracks should be banned for being completely stupid.
Have Your Say
I wonder how many drivers are just using side lights at night and can't see any signs clearly?
By oldhamgent @ 20/03/2013 12:29:35